Pennington-Russell, pastor of First Baptist Church of Decatur, Ga., said the diverse gathering of Baptists at the New Baptist Covenant celebration was a real gift. “We want to bless each other tonight and this week and give each other the best gifts straight from the heart,” she s
aid.Noting the broad racial, economic, geographic, cultural, and theological differences present, Pennington-Russell said “We are practicing the Baptist tradition of respecting each other’s differences.”
“Respectfulness” is a good gift, she said, but “is this really the gift we came so far to give this week?”
Respect alone “has no power to change something that is broken between you and me,” said: “only love can do that.”
Respectfulness is not a bad gift, “but it runs out of steam at the fifty-yard line,” she said. “But love, like Forrest Gump, runs all the way down the field, through the end zone, and into the parking lot.”
We have the ability to be respectful of others while still holding them at arm’s length, Pennington-Russell said, but “love doesn’t let us get away with that.”
“Jesus is the face of love,” she said, the one “who showed us what the power of real love could do through us in this world.”
Following Jesus in that path is not easy, she acknowledged. “Let’s not pretend we’re any good at this, but above all, let’s never doubt that Jesus Christ through us has the power to change the world.”
Pennington-Russell recalled a recent lightning strike that destroyed two trees, blew a hole in the ground, and damaged her family’s cars and home.
“There is a power just as free and just as frightening running through the church and through your heart and mind,” she said: “the power of love wants to blow a hole in all the separations we have contrived.”
Jesus came reaching out to us, “and in light of such a love, maybe it’s time for you and me to do some reaching, too,” she said, challenging participants to think of someone they have difficulty loving.
“Let love take you by the hand and lead you like a child to a new way of seeing that brother or sister, and look for Jesus in the face of that person,” she said.

35 comments:
Ms. Pennington-Russell notwithstanding, the Word of God still says,
"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church."
Mark Osgatharp
Wynne, Arkansas
Thank you for this one, Tony.
Some messages are spoken just when we need most to hear them.
Mark, that may be true, it's in the Bible, after all. But it was not said by Jesus. In fact, Jesus NEVER had a harsh word to say against women in the Bible.
Some even say Mary Magdalene was the 13th disciple. She was, after all, the first one Jesus appeared to when He arose on the third day.
My point is this: when the Bible was written, sure, those Verses against women MAY have applied, but I rather doubt it. What I am saying is this: nowadays, it's like it was in Judges, when every man lived by what was right in his own eyes. Keyword man.
Men are so corrupted in the 21st century that it takes a woman to tell it like it is, more so than ever before.
Like I've said before, they teach us, they raise us, and I don't see the problem.
star
Mark,
"God's Word" says: "A father and a mother may have a stubborn and rebellious son who refuses to obey them even after he has been punished. If a son is like that, his parents must drag him to the town gate, where the leaders of the town hold their meetings...The men of the town will stone that son to death, because they must get rid of the evil he brought into the community."
Should we not be taking this "Word of God" more seriously than worrying about women speaking in church? After all, this involves life and death.
Thank God we don't live like such barbarians now. Forced murder for rebellion of a child? I don't think so. Not on my watch.
star
starduster,
You said,
"that may be true, it's in the Bible, after all. But it was not said by Jesus."
Oh, but Jesus did say it. For Paul tells us,
"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only? If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord."
Your comment reflects the fundamental difference between a real Baptist and a modernist Baptist - we actually believe in the authority of all the Scriptures, the modernists falsely claim that they do. You said,
"Thank God we don't live like such barbarians now. Forced murder for rebellion of a child? I don't think so."
That Scripture was given to Moses by God. So in rejecting it you reject the authority of God and the authority of the Scripture. Just another example of the fundamental difference between real Christians and modernist pseudo-Christians.
For the record, you commented on the passage as if Moses told them to execute a child for misbehaving or some such thing. But that is not what the text says and it was obscured by the fact that Jim conveniently put ....... for an integral statement in the passage. What is actually says is:
"If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:
Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; and they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear."
Mark Ogsatharp
Wynne, Arkansas
I stand by my comments, Mark. Please don't categorize me, though. I admit being raised a Baptist, but have since learned better.
Seriously, religion is man's doing, and each one thinks it is correct, almost, and so I would rather just keep it between me and Jesus, and not me and some denomination.
As for killing children, which is what is spoken of, it's wrong to do so. Where is the compassion in this? Where is the second chance or third or how ever many it takes? Killing is not justified in the case you spoke of, and I am not trying to speak lightly of anything.
No matter what was written in the Bible, I believe Jesus when He said on this rest all the law and the prophets. Love God and love thy neighbor as thyself.
Don't you believe we are living under grace now and not the law? Is this not a fundamental belief of all Christians? Jesus did not come to break the law, or to perpetuate it, but to fulfill it, to finish it. Which He did.
star
"He went up from there to Bethel; and while he was going up on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him, saying, 'Go away, baldhead! Go away, baldhead!' When he (Elisha) turned around and saw them, he cursed them in the name of the LORD. Then two she-bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys."
The point is this: If the "Word of God" is taken as literal and inerrant in every writing in the Bible, then there can be no question that God approves of the killing of children for getting drunk and eating too much and for making fun of a bald man. How can it be otherwise? So, why aren't we Christians following the "Word of God?"
Starduster,
You said: "As for killing children, which is what is spoken of, it's wrong to do so."
A. If God commanded it it cannot be wrong, because God can't be wrong.
B. The text did not command the killing of a child. It commanded the killing of a man who was a drunkard and a glutton.
You asked: "Where is the compassion in this?"
The compassion in it was that other people would learn that you can't go through life being a glutton and a drunkard. There was to be no compassion for the man behaving in such a way. The Law was about unmitigated justice, not mercy.
You asked: "Don't you believe we are living under grace now and not the law?"
A. Yes, which is why the church does not stone gluttons and drunkards. Rather, we deal with them according to New Testament instructions which is to excommunicate them from the church and leave them to God's judgment. See I Corinthians chapter 5.
B. Notwithstanding, the truth remains that God did command Israel to deal with gluttons and drunkards thusly and therefore it was the right thing for them to do. Furthermore, it reflects how God views such wickedness and His judgment on it.
C. The New Testament explicitly states that God's judgment for sin is harsher for those of us living under grace than it was for those living under the Law.
Mark Osgatharp
Wynne, Arkansas
Jim,
The Lord has not commanded me to kill anyone and wlll not do so. So for me to do so would be disobedience to God.
The Lord did tell the Jews to stone a son (not necessarilty a child, as you have asserted) who was a glutton and a drunkard. The Lord also told them to exterminate the Canaanites who lived in the promised land and explicitly told them to kill all - men, women and children.
And the Lord did send a bear out to kill a bunch of kids for making fun of Elisha.
Of course, God takes the life of children every single day - for whatever reasons He chooses. To deny it you must either deny that God is the giver and taker of life or else close your eyes to the reality that exists in the world.
It seems to me that your real problem is not with the Bible, but with God Himself. It seems to me that you think you are the one who should decide who lives or dies and not God.
Mark Osgatharp
Wynne, Arkansas
Mark,
Here you're critical of Rev. Pennington-Russell for preaching at the NBC meeting(would Paul have considered the Georgia World Congress Center a church--wouldn't this be an example of young women prophesying?) Elsewhere, you've been critical of Tony Campolo for his method of witnessing. I've tripped across your opinion on a lot of different blogs and your tone always seems to be the same. Is there someplace I can go to read something you've written where you make a positive statement of your faith or is your understanding of Christianity just standing against everything?
I think words you've used elsewhere are appropriate here... you're starting to "creep me out".
Good Morning, Mark. You said:
The Lord has not commanded me to kill anyone and wlll not do so. So for me to do so would be disobedience to God.
How do you claim to know what God has in store for you? Are you His prophet?
You cannot know what you will do in the future, as only God knows that and NO ONE ELSE.
star
starduster,
"How do you claim to know what God has in store for you? Are you His prophet?"
No, I am not a prophet. But the apostles who wrote the New Testament were prophets who revealed the will of God for His churches, which does not involve the execution of judgment - as did the Lord's covenant with the nation of Israel.
Our New Testament commission is to go preach. The only sense in which the church is to execute sentence is by excommunicating the impenitent from the church.
You said,
"You cannot know what you will do in the future, as only God knows that and NO ONE ELSE."
I can know that God will not alter what He has commanded me. And what He has commanded me does not involve killing anyone.
But what He commanded the Jews in the Old Testament did involve killing people. You call this murder. I call it justice.
The Scriptures never teach against killing per se, but against unjustified or unwarranted killing. If God commands one man to kill another, it can't possibly be murder for him to obey, for God is the one who decides who should live or die.
Mark Osgatharp
Wynne, Arkansas
tom from indiana,
You said,
"you're critical of Rev. Pennington-Russell for preaching at the NBC meeting(would Paul have considered the Georgia World Congress Center a church--wouldn't this be an example of young women prophesying?)"
The church is not a building, it is the gathered people of God. Notwithstanding, the people gathered in Atlanta are not the people of God nor a church in any Biblical sense of the term.
That is all beside the point so far as Ms. Pennington-Russell is concerned. She is pastor of a church - or at least of a group of people who claim to be a church - and therefore stands in defiance of the commandment of Jesus Christ who, through His apostle Paul, commanded the women to be silent in the church.
You said,
"you've been critical of Tony Campolo for his method of witnessing."
My friend, leaning on someone during an air flight is not witnessing. It is leaning on someone during an air flight.
"I think words you've used elsewhere are appropriate here... you're starting to 'creep me out'."
Ah, typical liberal hypocrite! If I criticize others for defying God's word, I'm creepy, but if you criticize me you are.......I guess just telling the truth.
LOL!
Mark Osgatharp
Wynne, Arkansas
Mark,
Are you saying that you're not critical of Rev. Pennington-Russell for speaking at the NBC but you're critical of her for being pastor of First Baptist Decatur? Or does FB Decatur not qualify as a church for the same reason that NBC does not qualify as a church -- and if FB Decatur does not qualify as a church then why should the person who they call "pastor," who is not really a pastor at all since they're not really a church, be of any concern to you? Shouldn't you be expressing your concern about First Baptist Decatur rather than a secondary issue like who they refer to as "pastor"?
Does the conversation that Tony Campolo had with the person on the airplane not determine whether it was witnessing or not? Does touching someone during witnessing disqualify that from being witnessing?
I think you skipped over my really important question. Is there someplace I can read a positive statement of Christianity from you or is your understanding of Christianity just one where you are against a lot of things?
I'm sorry that my words "you're starting to creep me out" qualify me as a liberal and a hypocrite (I guess your use of those words would qualify you as a liberal too) -- I was just being honest about the reaction I have from reading your posts.
MArk,
"Do not judge, so that you may not be judged. For with the judgement you make you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get. Why do you see the speck in your neighbor's eye, but do not notice the log in your own eye? ...You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, snd then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your neighbor's eye."
I'll pray for you Mark.
Grace and peace,
Jim
tom in Indiana,
You said,
"Shouldn't you be expressing your concern about First Baptist Decatur rather than a secondary issue like who they refer to as 'pastor'?"
I don't know anything about First Baptist Decatur except that Ms. Pennington-Russell is their pastor. My only purpose in commenting on her at all was to point up the fact that no matter how accepting of women pastors the New Covenant Baptists are, it is still unscriptural.
You said,
"Does the conversation that Tony Campolo had with the person on the airplane not determine whether it was witnessing or not?"
Listen very carefully......Mr. Campolo didn't say that he had a conversation with the man and he didn't say that he witnessed to the man. He said that he leaned on him to convey the love of Jesus to him. Now just go contemplate that for a minute and see if you can make any Biblical sense out of it.
You said,
"is there someplace I can read a positive statement of Christianity from you or is your understanding of Christianity just one where you are against a lot of things?"
If you read the New Testament as it is written, not as it is filtered through the glasses of modernism, you will have my understanding of Christ and Christianity. And whether you realize it or not, being a Christian inherently involves being against a whole lot of things in this world.
Mark Osgatharp
Wynne, Arkansas
Mark Osgatharp
Jim,
You aren't......judging me are you? LOL!!
Mark Osgatharp
Wynne, Arkansas
Mark, you're a very interesting person. I am sure you know whereof you speak concerning the Bible.
It is a pleasure to debate a topic with someone who can manage to debate and keep emotions at bay. Such topics as religion call out the most serious feelings we have, so bravo, Mark, for maintaining a level head.
I may not agree with you on all points, but if we both love Jesus then we can't be too far apart.
BTW, killing for one's government has to be ok, right? Our soldiers must fight to keep us free every day, and that's killing but not murder. Or is it? What does God say? (I've read the Bible, just asking the question here.)
All I keep thinking is how Jesus looked in "Passion of the Christ" when He was bearing the whips, hooks and chains on His flesh, which you could tell was faked for the movie but still made me cry. At any time He could have stopped that atrocity but would not. If He could take such as He did, then can't we take a little too? I'm saying we need to love and not kill.
star
Mark,
Regarding Tony Campolo, the word "convey" means "to communicate, impart, make known" Uh, might that include using words or at least not exclude them? By the way, what are you trying to convey.
I asked you where I could read something you had written for a positive statement of Christianity. I was not aware that you had written the New Testament.
I'm just not really sure what your intention is in writing on these blogs. I would hope that you'd be trying to help us be better Christians, but I guess you just enjoy beating up people with your Bible. I'm sorry I've bothered you, I was just trying to understand you and I guess you don't want to be understood.
starduster,
You said,
"killing for one's government has to be ok, right? Our soldiers must fight to keep us free every day, and that's killing but not murder. Or is it? What does God say? (I've read the Bible, just asking the question here.)"
The Bible most certainly does not categorically condemn killing. It condemns murder.
I've heard people quote "thou shalt not kill" to oppose the death penalty. But the same Scripture that said "thou shalt not kill" commanded the Jews to kill the killers.
As for war, I think that some wars are justified and some are not but it is not always easy to discern. Suffice it to say that if our country is threatened by a hostile enemy - such as Islamic Terrorists - I see nothing in the Bible that would prohibit us from defending ourselves.
Jesus commanded His disciples to take a sword with them. I don't know why He would have commanded that if He didn't mean for them to defend themselves.
American Baptists and our English and Welsh Baptist forefathers have never been pacifists. That has been one of the chief distinction between us our our Dutch Baptist cousins, the Mennonites, who are pacifists.
Frankly, I've never understood where the Christian honor was supposed to be in standing there gawking while your family or neighbors are murdered, raped or pillaged.
Mark Osgatharp
Wynne, Arkansas
tom from Indiana,
You said,
"the word 'convey' means 'to communicate, impart, make known' Uh, might that include using words or at least not exclude them?"
If a stranger leaned on me during an airflight - or anywhere else - the only message I would get is that he was a boor at best or a pervert at worst. But you said,
"I'm just not really sure what your intention is in writing on these blogs."
My intention is to blast away unmercifully at the liars who say they are Christian but are not, who have hi-jacked the good Baptist name and debased it to hell. Is there any part of that you still don't understand?
Mark Osgatharp
Wynne, Arkansas
Mark said:
Jesus commanded His disciples to take a sword with them. ...
I can't find it, please tell me where the associated Verses are that say Jesus did so? Thx.
star
Mark,
Thanks for your explanation for your purpose here. I'm glad that God hasn't asked me to do anything like that. I suppose it is a pretty heavy burden to bear. I guess you accomplish what you set out to do, since your purpose is to "blast" rather than to convince them of the truth of your position.
Since I suppose you think I am one of "those liars who say they are Christian but are not..." I think I'll keep my distance from you. Our dialogue was interesting at best.
Mark, in a recent comment, you said "My intention is to blast away unmercifully at the liars who say they are Christian but are not, who have hi-jacked the good Baptist name and debased it to hell. Is there any part of that you still don't understand?"
If your purpose indeed is to "blast" all who disagree with your personal concept of what it means to be a Christian or a good Baptist, I respectfully request that you take your comments elsewhere.
This platform is designed for respectful communication of ideas, not vitriol.
Thank you,
Tony Cartledge
Mark please tell me where the Verse is that says Jesus told His disciples to take a sword with them. I was not aware He had done this.
One's purpose, as a human, is subject to change, us being frail humans who fall so far short of Godly behavior. Everyday we must look to the Lord for instructions, and as we grow, our interpretations of those instructions must surely grow.
We may change, hopefully we will, and get more like God every day. God doesn't change though, but our understanding of Him hopefully does as we grow.
If you can't respond here, please email me:
totherow@bellsouth.net
Thanks.
star
Tony,
You said,
"This platform is designed for respectful communication of ideas, not vitriol."
I know what "respectful communication of ideas" means to a liberal - it means you keep your mouth shut while we nicely, calmly and with airs of sophistication and erudition rip down every truth you ever held dear.
Well, it is your platform after all, so if at anytime you feel the need to push the flush handle, that is certainly your prerogative.
Mark Osgatharp
Wynne, Arkansas
My intention is to blast away unmercifully at the liars who say they are Christian but are not, who have hi-jacked the good Baptist name and debased it to hell. Is there any part of that you still don't understand?
I'm still searching through the Bible to find where it says that I will be judged before God...and Mark. For the life of me, though, I can only find where I will stand before God. But, Mark, if you are the determining factor as to who is Christian and who is not, the clearly, I must be mistake. I'll keep looking...
jpland,
You said,
"I'm still searching through the Bible to find where it says that I will be judged before God...and Mark."
That would be found in the little epistle of Jude:
"Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of his saints, to execute judgment on all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him."
I just happend to be one of those myriad saints and I'm sure looking forward to that day.
Mark Osgatharp
Wynne, Arkansas
Mark, you seem very certain that those who share your interpretation of the Bible are Christians and that those who arrive at different interpretations are not.
I wonder if this same certainty about who is an authentic follower of Christ crosses the minds of the disciples who, in Mark 9:38-41, notice someone outside their circle casting out demons in Jesus’ name. I trust you know Jesus’ response to this is not to stop the outsider but to count him as a partner in ministry.
As I read the gospels, I see in Jesus’ own preaching and ministry priority placed on the message of the Kingdom of God, not on the polity of the church. When I read the record of Julie Pennington-Russell’s proclamation of the good news in Atlanta, I recognize truth about that Kingdom. Even though it was Christ’s own priority, this truth is absent in debate over polity.
I urge you to let God chose the messenger, and even if she is an outsider to your circle, let her good news be a cup of refreshing water to you.
Mark,
Your statement presupposes that you are one of the saints....but surely someone determines that. Who? Who determines that I am not?
The verses that you quote most likely reference the second coming of Christ as opposed to individual judgment. And not only that, but the verses don't even reference that the saints will assist in judgment, they simply state that the saints will be present.
Revelation says that we will be judged from what is written in the book of life. It also says that the book was written before the foundation of the world. Do you have a say in if I'm written in that book? Were you penning names before the foundation of the earth?
For you to make a claim that you have some type of sway in God's judgment either puts you as an equal with God (are you sure you want to make that claim?), or it abolishes the sovereignty of God (again, is that a road you wish to travel?).
I will stand in judgment before God alone. I think you're giving yourself a little bit too much credit.
I am hoping to see on here some further explanation of the following statement, made by Mark Osgatharp of Wynne, Arkansas, a few comments above:
"Jesus commanded His disciples to take a sword with them. I don't know why He would have commanded that if He didn't mean for them to defend themselves."
I'm just curious, not looking to have a big squabble.
Whatever.
I don't think that the reference in Luke where Christ told His disciples to bring a sword relates to the way you mean it. Please read the Chapter and tell me what you think. Especially when He was satisfied when only two swords were made available. Why would that be, if He wanted all His disciples to carry the weapon?
I think He just meant for that night, so that when one of the swords was used to cut off the servant of the high priest's ear, Jesus then put the man's ear back, another miracle.
This was not the context of Jesus telling His disciples what to do after He was gone, like it says in another place in the Gospels. It was just for that night, IMHO.
History reveals all the disciples but one were killed horribly for their faith, like being skinned alive. Why would this be if Jesus had wanted them to carry a sword? It doesn't seem like they defended themselves at all.
(KJV)
Lk:22:49: When they which were about him saw what would follow, they said unto him, Lord, shall we smite with the sword?
Lk:22:50: And one of them smote the servant of the high priest, and cut off his right ear.
Lk:22:51: And Jesus answered and said, Suffer ye thus far. And he touched his ear, and healed him.
Lk:22:52: Then Jesus said unto the chief priests, and captains of the temple, and the elders, which were come to him, Be ye come out, as against a thief, with swords and staves?
star
It is unfortunate that this particular comment thread has shifted from talking about the messenger (Pennington-Russell) to topics almost totally unrelated to the New Baptist Covenant, all the while totally ignoring the substance of the message Ms. Pennington-Russell brought. Perhaps certain of the posts on this thread would serve as illustrations of her point exactly.
Be that as it may, her message was poignant and a breath of fresh air. I would add, that along with respect being an inadequate standard for Christians, tolerance equally "runs out of steam at the fifty yard line." Neither respect nor tolerance will ever be enough to show a watching world that God has made a difference in our lives and that we want to share that difference with others.
kenny davis,
You said,
"When I read the record of Julie Pennington-Russell’s proclamation of the good news in Atlanta, I recognize truth about that Kingdom. Even though it was Christ’s own priority, this truth is absent in debate over polity."
If this were a debate over the narrow matter of when and where women should speak (and I acknowledge that there is a time and a place for women to speak, albeit not when the church is assembled), it would still be and important matter. The Lord considered it a matter important enough to command Paul to tell the church at Corinth that it was a shame for women to speak in the church.
But the difference between New Covenant Baptists and authentic Baptists is not a matter of mere polity. It is a matter of two totally different concepts of faith which are at diametrical odds with one another.
In Atlanta, you had the Baptists who have discarded Christ as He is revealed in the Scriptures and erected modernism and moral relativism in His place, with only a thin veneer of Christianity. The Baptists who refuse to consent to this aberration do so because they actually believe that the words of Christ are true, right, good and discernible.
The differences between the two are not minor, they are major. They are not incidental, they are integral. They are not issues that can be compromised, they are life and death matters.
The New Covenant Baptists and the Scripture believing Baptists have two totally different understandings of faith, virtue, hope and love - yeah, of God Himself, Christ Himself and the Holy Spirit Himself. Consequently, they have two totally different agendas.
Any apparent similarity between the two is purely incidental and serves only to obscure the wide and unbridgeable divide between them.
Mark Osgatharp
Wynne, Arkansas
Post a Comment